Why do some saddles put you in a chair seat?

Stackhouse jumping saddle

My Stackhouse saddle has the stirrup bars positioned in a way that makes my leg fall in exactly the right position with little effort on my part. You can see they are set pretty far back, especially when compared to the Wintec below.

After you’ve found a saddle that fits your horse (not always an easy task), you also need one that puts you in proper balance. That’s not always a “given” because the rider’s conformation also needs to match the way a saddle is built. If the saddle doesn’t put you in the “sweet spot” you’ll spend a lot of time fighting your tack and feeling slightly off balance. Certainly, it will adversely affect the way you ride.

Perhaps the most common problem is when a saddle puts the rider in a chair seat — so named because the rider looks like she is sitting on her bum with her legs slightly in front of her and her thigh too parallel to the ground. In a properly balanced saddle, the rider is positioned over her seat bones and her leg is underneath her in line with her ear, shoulder, hip and heels — if her horse were to be suddenly taken away, she would land on her feet, not her butt. If your trainer keeps telling you to bring your legs back underneath you, you are in a chair seat.

There are times when being in a slight chair seat isn’t such a bad idea. Many cross-country saddles put you in a chair seat and it’s helpful to be able to put your feet on the “dashboard” when you jump a drop fence. But for flatting, dressage and for fences on flat terrain, being in a chair seat puts you behind the motion so that you are always playing a bit of catch up.

Wintec XC saddle

This Wintec XC saddle has the bars placed in a more forward position. It puts me in a chair seat but I don't mind that so much if I'm hunting or riding cross country.

The major reason why a rider ends up in a chair seat is that the stirrup bars are positioned too far forward on the saddle in relation to the length of the rider’s femur. It’s particularly a problem if your femurs are long (I know this from first hand experience). Some saddles have extended stirrup bars and some have the bars placed farther back. After you have looked at different saddles and felt your balance point, you’ll start to recognize the ones that work best for you. In my case (freakishly long femurs) I prefer saddles that are built with an extra forward flap as there is enough flap in front of the bar to accommodate my leg.

My experience also has told me that saddles with very deep seats tend to be more prone to putting you in a chair seat probably because to accommodate the length of your femur the stirrup leathers should hang vertically and approximately 6″ or 7″ forward of the deepest part of the seat — and in very deep saddles, that position is generally further forward than in saddles with shallower seats.

It took me many years and many saddles to figure out that it was the stirrup bar placement that made such a difference to my position. I’d always realized that some saddles just made it easier to stay in balance but figuring out why means that there’s no guess work involved.

What if you have a saddle with bars that are too far forward?

It’s very expensive to have the bars repositioned on a saddle. But, if you own a saddle with the bars too far forward there’s a trick you can try that might help. Take the rubber rings used on a martingale or even some thick hair bands and put them on the stirrup bar in front of your leathers. This will move your stirrup position very slightly back. It won’t make a huge difference but it may help.

Resources:

Leg Length and Your Position: Great article from Schleese about the correlation between the length from your hip to your knee and the position of the stirrup bars.

From the bit box: Full Cheek Slow Twist

Full Cheek Slow Twist Snaffle

This Full Cheek Slow Twist snaffle was my first xc bit

This is the oldest bit in my bit box. It is a bit I bought when I started eventing back in the early 1980s.

At the time I was leasing Dudley, a green Hannovarian/TB gelding. We started him over fences and six weeks later took him out Novice at Pleasant Hollow.

Dudley was a horse that I normally rode in a full cheek single jointed snaffle. Neither he — nor I — had ever jumped cross country and I had no idea what he’d be like on course. We’d schooled over a few isolated fences, but this was all new.

My trainer suggested the big twist as she felt it would give me a bit extra control out on course if I needed it . . . but it wasn’t going to back him off the bit too much.

How it works

A full cheek bit is a useful bit for a horse where you might have trouble turning because the cheek pieces of the bit exert pressure on the side of the horse’s mouth to encourage turning. The design of the bit also prevents the rider from pulling the bit through the horse’s mouth. If you use keepers with the bit, this adds even more stability to the bit (and also helps prevent it from catching on things).

Full cheek slow twistLike all single jointed bits, the mouthpiece the mouthpiece puts pressure on the bars of the mouth,  the tongue and roof of the mouth. You can see in the photo to the right that when the bit is bent, the joint moves forward. Some horses don’t like the “nutcracker” action of the single joint but back when I used this bit, there weren’t any double jointed bits and my horse never had any problem with it.

The twist in the metal gives the bit more “teeth” than a smooth bit, but is not considered to be particularly severe. It will impact the lips and the bars. The slow twist may help get your horse’s attention in situations where he might ignore a plain snaffle.

Did it work? It certainly made me feel more in control when riding xc, but I suspect that much of it was in my mind. Dudley wasn’t a strong horse xc and I probably didn’t need it for control, just for security.

Related Posts

Fitting a Full Cheek Snaffle

My bit box

My Bit BoxThis morning I took a look at my collection of bits. Believe it or not, this has been vastly reduced over the years.

Some bits I’ve given to friends . . . some bits I sold (they were so expensive!) . . . and others have disappeared.

I try to keep the bits that worked for particular horses. There’s a big twist full cheek that I used on my first event horse, Dudley; the single jointed loose ring snaffle that I bought for Bogie; and several bits that I used for Kroni. Those bits have a lot of memories attached to them. And they are a lot easier to hold onto than saddles!

What’s in your bit box? Do you hold onto the bits from horses you had?

Choosing a bit depends on your horse, not just your hands

Loose ring single jointed snaffle

This loose ring single jointed snaffle was the only bit I had for my horse, Bogie. Although technically it fit Kroni, he would accept a steady contact in it.

For years I heard “people” say that the bit didn’t matter, it was the rider’s hands that made the difference. Although there is some truth to that (poor riding can make even the mildest bit an instrument of torture), it’s not quite that simple.

Okay, sometimes it is.  I bought one bit for my horse, Bogie — a German silver loose ring snaffle. The old kind with a single joint. I rode him in dressage, xc, and stadium in that bit. I hacked in it and galloped in it. I never had any problems.

Then I bought Kroni, my Trakehner. He had some “training” issues when I bought him  that made him reluctant to take contact with the bit. He had been ridden in draw reins and liked to float behind the bit. I tried single jointed snaffles, double jointed snaffles, mullen mouth snaffles, thick bits (supposedly mild), loose rings, fixed rings, Mikmar bits, Myler bits, you name it and I probably tried it. He was always busy in his mouth.

When you hear people complain about how difficult it is to find a saddle for a particular horse? That’s how I felt about bits for Kroni.

Finally, an equine dentist explained to me that he had a low palate and a thick tongue — there wasn’t much room in his mouth for a bit. Armed with that piece of information, I chose a thinner, mullen mouth style bit. He also vastly preferred fixed ring bits like an egg butt or a baucher, which stayed quieter in his mouth. He did okay in those bits but was never great. When I finally tried a bitless bridle (sidepull) he gave a huge sigh of relief and we never looked back. Of course, that worked for me because I stopped competing and started hunting. In the hunt field no one cares what kind of bit you use as long as you can stop.

My experience with him made me much more curious about how different bits work in a horse’s mouth. Which ones have more tongue pressure, or bar pressure. Why double jointed bits have become the rage. And how certain bits work to address specific issues. Over the next few months I’ll go through my bit box (which has a lot more in it these days than my loose ring snaffle!) and talk about why I bought it and how it worked.

I’d love to hear from all of you about what bits you use and why.

A good place to start understanding bitting, is a series of videos from Dale Myler, of Myler bits. I certainly learned a lot from watching.

Here’s the first in the series.

Adjusting the ubiquitous flash noseband correctly

Bridle with a flash noseband

This photo shows a horse wearing a bridle with a properly adjusted flash noseband.

It seems to me like it’s almost impossible to buy a bridle without a flash attachment any more, especially a dressage bridle. I guess I’m dating myself, because I have a clear memory of when the opposite was true: the flash was a piece of equipment you added if it were needed, but most horses did without. Now it seems like a fashion accessory

In fact, “way back when” we mostly used drop nosebands (which fell out of fashionable favor sometime when the ice age was receding). Apparently they are ugly.

I wouldn’t have a real problem with the flash noseband except for so many people don’t fit it correctly.  I think people forget that the idea behind the flash was to help stabilize the jaw and keep the bit from slipping down. You are not supposed to cinch it so tight that it leaves marks on your horse’s muzzle!

Flash nose band too low

On this bridle, the flash is too low. It is pulling down on the noseband and is too close to the sensitive areas near the horse's nostrils.

Most often I see flash nosebands (and also figure 8 bridles) adjusted so they are too low — when this happens they can interfere with your horse’s breathing.

To adjust them correctly you need to start by having the cavesson adjusted so that the noseband sits 1-2 fingers below your horse’s cheekbone.

Then adjust the flash strap so that is snug but so you can still fit two fingers under the horse’s jaw.

When a flash strap is too low, or cranked too tight,  they exert continuous pressure over the sinus area and can even cause nerve damage.

Flash nosebands can be helpful — I’ve used them on occasion when I had a horse that was opening its mouth and bracing against the bit — but they are not a substitute for training. True relaxation and acceptance of the bit cannot be achieved by strapping your horse’s mouth shut; often resistance in the mouth is caused by the rider.

So if you have to use a flash, make sure that’s adjusted in a way that won’t hinder your horse and think about what you want to accomplish by adding it to your bridle.

 

 

 

Having problems with moldy tack?

Moldy Saddle

This is just one of my saddles that started sprouting mold.

We had so much rain over the summer and early fall that I found a fresh crop of mold almost every time I came to the barn. I was cleaning my tack constantly but could barely keep up with it. Even with a de-humidifier running in the tackroom, the mold was getting an upper hand.

Here are some of the tips that I’ve found help:

  • Stop using glycerin saddle soap. Glycerin is a humectant and holds moisture — giving mold a great growing environment.
  • Always clean mold from your tack in an open location (preferably outside). As you clean, you are sending the mold spores into the surrounding air. You don’t want them to land on another host.
  • While washing off mold use a clean towel and wash it after you’ve done.
  • Avoid using harsh chemicals on your tack — even though they might kill the mold spores, you can damage the leather. I will admit to one exception. Years ago I opened my tack trunk to find my custom chaps dripping in mold. I was at the point of throwing them out when my trainer suggested that I put them in
    Leather Therapy products stop mold in its tracks

    You can read my review of Leather Therapy products on TackGuru.com. Just click on the picture.

    the washing machine with either Pinesol or Lysol. I tried it and they came out fine. They have also NEVER had a single spot of mold on them since.

  • Covering your saddle with a clean towel.

I found that there was only one product out there that will really help prevent mold and those are the Leather Therapy products. I’m not trying to sound like a commercial, but I’ve been using them now for about two months and the difference is amazing. No more mold!

A cure for numb toes

Super Comfort Stirrup Pads

I've een using the Super Comfort Stirrup Pads now since the end of the summer and they really live up to their name.

The older I get, the more a long ride hurts. My knees I keep happy with jointed stirrups and longer leathers, but this year my feet started to go numb. Not during every ride, but longer rides with shorter stirrups did it every time.

This summer I started to think about replacing my stirrups — I remembered that years ago, when my husband has a Western saddle, I had endurance stirrups on it. They had wider footbeds that were also padded. They were so comfortable!

There are very few traditional English stirrup irons that offer you a padded, wide bed. I also already own jointed stirrups and was loathe to trade them in as I think they are key to keeping my knees happy.

You attach the pads to your irons using cable ties.

You attach the pads to your irons using cable ties.

While browsing at SmartPak I came across the Super Comfort Stirrup pads and bought one set to try. They are easy to install (you remove your existing pad and wrap the Super Comfort pad around the iron, securing them with three cable ties) and I found that they are 1) more comfortable (they make the footbed wider and give a more cushiony feel) and 2) are MUCH more secure. The surface is very grippy and I’ve found that even in wet weather, my foot doesn’t move at all.

I hunted with these stirrup pads all fall and they definitely have helped. I never lost my stirrups or felt my foot slip. The numbness is much improved — actually, I realized how much better my feet feel with these stirrup pads when I switched saddles for a hunt and rode in regular stirrups. It was a long hunt — about 3 hours — and my feet were completely numb. I think I’ll have to buy these stirrup pads for my other irons, too.